The following debate began with a post by Danica on my Gave Up interpretations page. I didn't feel that that page was the right forum, but I find this arguement very interesting. So I've moved it here, where it is more appropriate. Here was the original post, followed by other people's responses-


Trent Reznor is just expressing what he feels in a world full of confusion and anger. This has absolutely no affect on his songs. They are just words. Words put down on paper and sung for profit. I happen to love Nine Inch Nails and I really don't think that they wrote those songs to be evaluated. They wrote those songs to put on an album and to sell for money. Who really cares what people think of their lyrics? They have made a lot of money and they also have a super abundance of fans. So whoever is making all of this fucking bullshit up needs to realize that songs are for entertainment purposes only, and anyone who goes beyond that really need to get a life.


Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


The following response is by me-

I'm sorry, but I don't see NIN as a feelingless profit machine. Sure, anyone would love to profit from their hard work. But by no means is Reznor more concerned with cash than with his music. Of course he's making money..he deserves it. I'll quote Tool (Hooker With a Penis)- "All you know about me is what I sold you, dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever even heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit..and you bought one". I doubt the artists care what people think of them, as Tool has expressed many times. Music is art, and the artists owe no explanations. Art evokes feelings within people..as Nine Inch Nails clearly does. Art is to be discussed. As for the personal attack on my site.. This site is concerned with the fans themselves, more than anything else.. the reasons why NIN is important to them. If NIN isn't important to you, click here now, and leave this site..because, why the hell are you even here?
And also.. Pretty Hate Machine was extremely popular. Trent once said he could write 10 more Head Like a Hole's, but there's nothing new or innovative about that. He went on to write Broken, a harsh "wall of noise", that many critics called "unlistenable". Then came The Downward Spiral, with dark, dissonant suicidal themes. How could he know that these albums would've sold millions, when, as the critics said, they should've ended his career?


Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


"Music" is such a broadly defined term - all different types of noise are regularly lumped together in the large amalgamation termed "music." Some types of music serve to express an artist's deepest emotional feelings. Other types of music are intended to be used as a rhythmic thumping background for types of dances. I do not feel any one type or function of music is really any more valid than another, contrary to what many classical and punk rock "snobs" alike would proclaim. Furthermore, much music does not fall cleanly into neat categories. How music affects an individual is solely an individual choice, and no choice is better or worse than another's. People enjoy NIN for as many different reasons as there are people. If a person listens to NIN because of its aggresive, industrial dance beats, then so be it. It is music. If a person can glean a poetic meaning from Trent's lyrics underneath the noise, so be it. It is still music. If a man beats on pots and pans to create a good dance beat, it's music. Should I dismiss it even if he did not mean to create an ambient dance beat? No. Dance. If a man beats on pots and pans because he thinks it sounds good, it's still music. If a man beats on pots and pans to express a certain emotion, it's still music. Even if he did not intentionally try to express a certain emotion, and I somehow can extract a meaning from the racket, should I dismiss them? No. I have found something in this universe which quantifies and expresses something so very intrinsically nonquantifiable.

Danica wishes to attack those who attempt to place different meanings to music than she has. I am not criticizing the specific way in which she enjoys music, only her dismissal of any other meaning which people receive from music that differs from her own as invalid. In doing so she is only denying, destroying a part of the very music which she claims to love.

Sorry if that was drawn out but to me, music is one of the most influential, beautiful, infinitely faceted things man can create and should be treated with an open mind.

-Nicholas

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


Danica...Does the world where you live have a sun? I honestly hope not... I try everyday to pull myself into the sun but I always seem to be dragged back by the econo-frenzied peasants that inhabit this shabby little planet... You see everything in a -give to me- light and I'll bet you find a way to crawl into the sun every day... Art helps me to see that others are like me. NIN is art, not your corporate machine... maybe one day the sun will shine on me and I will see that you give up something...

-CHARON

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


On interpreting stuff:
We interpret the meanings of novels, poems, plays, etc. every day. It's called literature. And so what if the author didn't PUT the meaning there intentionally? It means that to us. Music is poetry. We interpret the lyrics by the meaning they give to us. So what if Trent Reznor just randomly generated the lyrics, or got them by spinning a carrot or had a wierd dream or something. The lyrics he writes just happen to mean something to someone out there and we express our opinions.
On language:
Language is imperfect. What means something to one person may mean something else entirely to another person, based on experience, education, upbringing, etc. That is just the way it is. Here is a good example: GODISNOWHERE.
Does this say God is now here, or God is nowhere? It depends on who you are and what you believe. Same thing with lyrics.
On poetry and creativity:
Personally to me, NIN lyrics MEAN something. Maybe that is cause I myself write poetry. Maybe it's cause I'm bipolar. Maybe it's cause they put LSD in the water supply where I live. Who knows? All I know is it speaks to me. I see a creative spirit. (And yes it does take creativity to write anything really. If you don't believe me, TRY to write a poem..a GOOD poem that says something. See how easy it is.)
On money:
I have seen this attitude many times. If an artist makes money off of what they sell, they automatically become sell-outs and fakes who are only producing their art for money. Get a GRIP!!!!! Look, we all would LOVE to do something we are good at and love and make a lot of money doing it. Just cause Trent Reznor has a lot of money and people like his albums doesn't mean he is making music for money. It just means that for some BIZARRE reason, people LIKE the music. Music is words and music is sounds and music is an expression. Maybe some people just like the sounds. I know I do. I also know that I like the words cause I "know" them. They speak to my inner soul. Even if Trent DID come up with the lyrics by spinning a carrot.
Does that mean that any rich artist just does what they do for money?
Why must money be the be-all and end-all of existence?
I sure don't make money by me writing.
Does that make me a better writer than Trent?
Or a coward cause I am afraid to expose myself to the critique of my personal thoughts?
In General:
It doesn't matter WHY NIN recorded those songs. They did. Does it matter why Charles Dickens wrote "Great Expectations"? Not really. No matter the reason, high school students all over the US STILL have to read it and figure out the meaning. The danger here is to thinking. If we assume that meaning is given to writings by the AUTHOR, then we limit free-thinking by saying that the only interpretations that are valid are those that the writer gives to us. Heck, half the time I don't know what I write actually MEANS. That doesn't mean that there aren't some meanings there I didn't quite catch. That doesn't mean that someone who finds a meaning I didn't see in one of my poems is wrong. That is what it means to THEM.
So in response to Danica(and I apologize for the length of this)
Maybe for YOU all NIN is IS really nifty music. That is your personal opinion. If all you get out of it is really nifty music though, I kind of pity you. If you live in a world where there are no true artists who get rewarded, then you live in a dark place indeed. If you live in a world where just cause you can't see the deeper meaning there isn't one, then it is very shallow, and I hope you don't stub your toes on the pebbles at the bottom of the stream. But respect those who DO find meaning in the lyrics, even if you don't see them. It's THEIR meaning, THEIR thoughts, and their perogative to express their opinions, especially since a forum has been provided for it.
Again I apologize for the length. I just get sick of people who insist that the tree couldn't have fallen in the forest cause they didn't see it.

"Trent Reznor is just expressing what he feels in a world full of confusion and anger. This has absolutely no affect on his songs. They are just words."-Danica

I would love to see the day that my confusion and anger and pain and hurt did NOT come out in my poetry. Maybe then I could read it without relieving those emotions all over again. Danica, in this statement, I feel you are wrong. How can Trent be expressing what he feels without it having any effect on his song, and how can his expressions be so many empty words?

-Rhlannon

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


I am an artist myself, and I know what it's like to create something. First off, I don't do what I do for money, I do earn I profit though, but hey, I need to live, right? But that's not the only the reason I do it. Sometimes I do it to get an emotion out, e.g., if I'm angry, I'll paint something cruel and evil on a canvas; my deeper emotions, then look at it and say, "did I do that? Was that me? Is this who I am inside?" Sometimes I put down what I have on a mind, e.g. a disturbing dream, I'll spend a while painting it to get a better picture. Or if I see something wonderful, I'll render it in sculpture. People come into my apartment, they see it, they like it. Now, am I a "Sell-out"? Am I a "Guby money hungry merchant"? No, I worked long and hard on them. I'm not telling people how to see them. I don't have what they mean written down on card next to them; some people see them as junk, others like the way they look, and some see a deep inner meaning. This is just like NIN and all music in general. If I sell one, hell, them it becomes someone elses, it's free to be whatever they want it to be.

The fact is, Reznor works long and hard on his albums (no NIN fan can deny that.) And his music/sound is always excellent (no NIN fan can deny that, either.) It's not just a load of crap thrown together to make a profit. Sure, Reznor may be well off, but does that mean he has no emotions? Does that mean he is happy? No matter how well off you are, their will always be something that bugs you, something that gnaws at you, something that you hate, and I think he expresses this in his songs. This is the perfect way to get your point across.

And in closing (whew, sorry this is so long...) I would like to ensure that NIN DOES have meaning to it. Sure not all songs have meaning (e.g. Big Man With A Gun is a mock of Gangsta Rap, and Pinion is pointless) But the ones that do far outweigh those that don't. And the magnitude of one may be greater than another. If you can't find a meaning in them, then I'm afraid that you are shamefully blind.

-D M C

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


Anyone who says Trent Reznor feels nothing when it comes to his songs, must obviously be living under a rock. Have you seen him in concert, read interviews, even just taken a long hard look at the man? This man is one cluster of emotions, and each song is a release. Everyone of his songs has a meaning deeper than any idiot like Danica could even begin to fathom. To feel nothing, is to know nothing. We feel what he says, because we have lived it as well; we can identify. In concert, Trent Reznor is not putting on a show, this is his time to let go of these emotions, and throw them out to us in tortured screams and languid jerks of his body, reminicent of throws of anguish and pain. Just his voice alone could fill novels of sadness, regret. I'm not saying everything the man says has meaning, but he is the closest thing we have to a modern day philosopher. The words interact with each melody so beautifully, mixing pleasure with pain, and we who believe in him and what he stands for can feel them, as if he were quietly whispering each lyric into our brain, and that is truly the work of a genius.

-Lily Silver

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


Alright. I understand all sides of this debate. Yes, I'm sure Trent wrote these songs to make a profit off of the Generation X'ers. He did this because he could, and because he knows we relate to it. Depression is a trend, kids dress in all black and talk about death now because it's what alot of people do. Trent knows this, and writes songs that kids think are, quote, cool. On the other hand he is obviously writing these songs because they have meaning to him. He has said this time and time again. "I write these songs because they help me focus on life, but i really don't give a fuck if people understand them, and truly I don't care." This quote sums up my feelings, people should spend less time focusing on what we'll never know and listen to the music. if the song has special significance to you, good, i'm glad, but unless Trent starts telling us what they actually mean, I don't think we should spend our time trying to figure it out.

-Lazarus

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


Ok, not to beat the bush or anything (there are some good thoughts there) I would have to agree. All music has a personal feeling from the song writer, you can't just flip out a song without thinking about it first. NIN not only has meaning in their (his) songs but you also gather your own personal feelings from it. Like I listen to NIN alot, and if a certain thing happens to me while listening to one of his songs, then everytime I hear that song I think of that situation. I feel sorry for you that you think NIN songs don't have any meaning. The Broken alblum was overflowing with emotions, hatered for corporate america, and the fact that TVT was trying to control his thoughts, control who he was, and in fact trying to control him. Another thing that angered me is that D M C thought that pinion was a useless song, look up the word pinon in the dictionary, that song is not useless, its almost like an opener for the whole broken alblum, an insight on what it is about.

-RipTor

Nine Inch Nails Interpretations


As an artist and amateur poet, I realize that my although I may not have intended a particular meaning in something I've written or painted, it isn't necessarily wrong because someone else sees it before I do. For example, once I wrote a poem that was intended to be a rape fantasy. However, when people read it, they saw alternative meanings. Some thought it was a metaphor for something that actually happened to me, that I felt corrupted and helpless to "fix" myself, or that I was angry at the lies I was told about God. Reflecting back on the time in which I wrote the poem, all of these meanings could easily be "true". Fantasies, like dreams, reflect reality to some extent. Even if someone is totally off the mark, like saying I wrote it while tripping on acid, it doesn't matter. If they experienced some sort of hallucination that resembled my poem while they were tripping, then obviously that's the interpretation that means the most to them. I do not believe that any serious artist writes about things that have no effect on their life, and no NIN fan would deny that Trent Reznor is a serious artist.

-anonymous


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